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 To pen or not to pen.

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PostSubject: To pen or not to pen.   Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:18 pm

Hello all as some of you are aware we had a wee discussion the other night regarding the penalty system we use at ARC races. We currently use the automatic penalty system which in an ideal world would be fine alas at times it can be frustrating to say the least.

I would like to put forward the argument for using manual protests for penalties. Too many times I have received an unfair penalty under the nadeo system and through ignorance or spite it has not been cancelled. We are all fair sailors for the majority of the time and we all tend to cancel on request unless it has been a bad pen and/or a menace of a competitor.

With a manual pen you are sure of 1 of either of 2 things.

1. You have been infringed by/or infringed another to such an extent that a protest is the best method to educate.

2. You have been hunted by another sailor and you are on the receiving end of an unfair penalty.

In the first case you can cancel/ask for cancellation if you feel it was a tight call (your options are there to be acted upon and you are not leaving it to the computer to say whether there was a pen or not).

In the second case it will become very apparent that there is a penalty hunter among us and will swiftly be dealt with.

Some have said it wont stop people hunting (I agree) but a hunter will hunt what ever system we use. It's just that they have to actively push that button to pen you and prove themselves to be an undesirable and then they will feel the full force of Dan's boot up their backside.

To finish off and stop wittering on, I feel that manual pens will improve our quality of racing and you can be sure that if I protest it has been very much earned.


Thank you for reading this post and please comment on the way you feel and which system you would like to use.

Cheers and out.
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PostSubject: Re: To pen or not to pen.   Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:22 pm

I agree with you, it would be very easy to spot a hunter from the fleet with manual penalties. It would also remove noncense penalties that we would cancel right away mostly rules 13,15 sometimes 11 and 18.

Manual penalties also have a bad side, you have to know really well when nadeo thinks you are close enough to give a pen and sometimes you are in a hassle with 10 boats around you and you have no time to press the protest button. Also if the other 10 boats think they want to give a pen there are 30 protests in the chatbox and no one knows who penned who.

I think the automatic penalties work ok and if you get a penalty from a muppet who won't cancel you will learn to be more careful. So i think automatic penalties teach you better than manual.

Most of the time nadeo is correct and the fault is staring back at you from the mirror.

These are my thoughts on the matter i'm willing to go either way Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: To pen or not to pen.   Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:46 am

I agree, and well put Olli, I like the mirror reference, the thing I noticed mostly about Manual Pens when I hosted Season II ACCEES using it after a similar discussion with the SCV boys was that there was still "NO SAFE GUARD" vs The Pen Hunter. The simple truth is that the Nadeo system has no way of enforcing 14 and therefore the Pen Hunter has a loophole to exploit.

As far as I can tell this will not change, so from NPC to Manual Pens its all rigged to help the hunter go about his business of pissing everyone off, ruining races, ruining seasons and championships etc etc.

I guess what Im saying is that "YES" I am willing to spend another season proving this point, and no Manual Pens will "NOT" prevent the Pen Hunter destroying races. Im sorry guys but the best we can do is get to know just "WHO" they are and stop them from entering our races.

You see its like this, yes the Pen Hunter works away feverishly trying to score a Pen on you, I spot him and ban him in the usual way, you still have your Pen guys, you still have to spin, so NPC, FPC, Man Pens....really....whats the difference? At least with FPC the Hunter gets to look like a complete "ASS" in front of the whole community, exposed, and hi-lighted for the idiot he is.

Cheers keep this rolling lets get everyones views...Im just one guy.

AussieXII Vs Pen Hunters = ZERO TOLERANCE Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Dan

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PostSubject: Re: To pen or not to pen.   Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:06 am

Briefly put i think manual pens are a good idea as penalties will only happen if the boat in question feels wronged

Joe
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PostSubject: Re: To pen or not to pen.   Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:15 am

Hi

Dan in the case of ACCEES I think FPC is the only way to keep the friendly atmosphere in the racing. With manual FPC penalties the hunter will make himself an ASS and an JACKASS at the same time. Many hunters don't know the rules well enough to press p only once so it would make it very obvious who is hunting and who isn't (repeated protest popping in the chat box).

It is true that no safe guard can be made against hunters, other than your experience and fast kick button performance.

We could try manual FPC for a few races and see where we are after that.
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PostSubject: Re: To pen or not to pen.   Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:02 am

keep the opinions coming guys, I think Sandy would like to hear from everyone on this one. I think I have stated everything I wanted to state, as I have said on Team Speak and now here...I will agree with the consensus of the comittee, so all Team ARC Members should at least cast a vote.

This thread should probably be moved to the General Discussion so it can be seen by all.

I think I am very much in two worlds on it really, but I will vote to keep it as it is FPC, as Manual Pens - FPC didnt really do anything other then having me being accused of favoritism...

oh wait...Ive been accused of that in an ACCEES FPC Server too:roll:...nevermind...faulse alarm...I will host whichever you guys want me to host.

Guess my ulimate point is I cant please everyone...which is expressly why the ACCEES Charter was written, at least I had something iron clad to go by or to call on. Had some basis and grounds for banning the hunters and bargers, the unsportsmanlike, the unruly, the ungentlemanly, those pagan assholes that have no morality. Those morons that are completely oblivious to the fact that others may want to win also, or display a flagrant disregard for host server rules....sheesh....who are these people.....scratch


sorry Sandy Ill shut up now....Crying or Very sad .....*pssht* Dan Out *pssht*

Dan

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PostSubject: Re: To pen or not to pen.   Fri May 02, 2014 4:22 am

[dice=6d6]

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PostSubject: Re: To pen or not to pen.   Fri May 02, 2014 4:25 am

[dice=6d6]

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